An Interview with ‘The Glorias’ Director Julie Taymor

“Taking to the road — by which I mean letting the road take you — changed who I thought I was.” So Gloria Steinem introduces her captivating memoir My Life on the Road — about her life in motion and how those moments out in the world made her the activist, organizer, and writer she is today.

It is also the inspiration for the new film The Glorias, directed by Julie Taymor, who brought us the stage production of The Lion King (1997), Frida (2002), and Across the Universe (2007). Known for her artful, surrealist treatments — certainly, of the lives of legendary figures like Frida Kahlo and The Beatles — Taymor is hardly a traditionalist. We knew not to expect a straightforward biopic spanning eight decades of Steinem’s long and illustrious life.

Four actresses play Gloria Steinem at different stages of her life: Ryan Kira Armstrong as Steinem in her youth; Lulu Wilson as her in her teens; Alicia Vikander as Steinem ages 20 to 40; and Julianne Moore as Steinem 40 to 80. And as each Gloria charts her most formative experiences in those respective stages, they are all united — and interacting — on a Greyhound bus, out of time and ever in motion. It’s the setting where the Glorias get to be in conversation with one another and metabolize their experiences, much the same way Steinem does in her book.

What is most striking about the film is the inventive approach Taymor takes to faithfully convey the one thing that has informed Steinem’s life the most: It’s not the road; it’s listening — to her peers and mentors, her opponents, her intuition, and her former selves. Steinem’s life is an incredible constellation of conversations. The road is the conduit.

Taymor spoke with WMC’s The FBomb about the film and what audiences can take from Steinem’s extraordinary example.

This interview has been edited for clarity.

I don't think we could have predicted what this year leading up to the election would be like, not least of all in the throes of a global pandemic. And your industry has certainly been affected. What has it been like getting this film out there while under lockdown?

Julie Taymor: Well, we were hoping to go into movie theaters at the end of September, and Gloria Steinem, the actors, and I were planning to go across the country in a bus to promote it. All of that is not going to happen. But we've all insisted that it can't be postponed because, I think, many things about the film are absolutely for this moment. This film is really about the fight for the rights of women and other minorities, [and] I’m hoping we can really get this movie out in a big way — especially, to inspire people that there's no choice but to vote.

Can you tell us about the storytelling structure of the film?

Well, Gloria’s book My Life on the Road is out of order; it's not a linear biopic. The chapters are [organized by] different, meaningful parts of her life; there are all these amazing moments in her book.

So, the structure that came to me was not from any imagery, really, but from a concept of a bus, in black and white and out of time — this iconic Greyhound bus on the highway that would be the recurring visual motif allowing us to go between eras without having to have this shared voiceover.

There are four different actresses who play Gloria, and those Glorias interact with one another, talk to each other, step into each other's shoes, take over, comment, and travel together on this eternal bus out of time that's forever going to the next protest.

It seems to have been the thing that most audiences have responded to.

What do you think makes the element of the Glorias in conversation with one another resonate so well with people?

I think that everyone has multiple selves, like Russian nesting dolls: there's one inside another inside another, etc.

It's not just that [the Glorias] talk to one another, but they actually are each other at different times. Sometimes I would have the younger Gloria speaking to the older Gloria [to convey] this inner turmoil. And I was able to exteriorize this physical relationship between the various Glorias using the bus. I found many ways to approach [her] history that way.

That, I think, is original and specific to this film, and really is the glue that keeps it together.

When I told Gloria about this idea, she said, “How did you know?” I said, “Know what?” and she said, “How did you know that when I'm walking down the street, I sometimes see my younger self on a street corner a block away, and I think about her and what she would think of me now.” I felt really gratified and on the right track when she said that.

Going into creating those surrealistic scenes and moments, I wonder what considerations you made for any details, vulnerabilities, or nuances Gloria might have shared with you. And did you keep any front of mind as you were making the film?

Well, there's a certain point in which I have to have the freedom as a creator, where I can imagine — whether Gloria imagined it or not — Gloria seeing Fred Astaire dancing on the rooftops of Hollywood. And I think she gave me that freedom to come into the work, to have certain levels of interpretation of what a woman would feel, or what I, as a woman, would feel. Otherwise, we might as well have just gone and did a documentary.

There's a whole nother aspect of the film with moments that are completely abstract and surreal — with “Julie Taymor touches,” as some people would say — and, for me, they're how you get into the dream world, the world that is more abstract, with things that you don't say out loud, that you imagine in your head.

So, there were big things in her life that I could do in 30 seconds if I could find the right image. But we also had a lot of documentary footage with the real people, so we intermixed it with our actors, and I feel like that gives a kind of edge to it because it is real.

Whenever anybody hears the name “Gloria Steinem,” they think “feminist icon.” And while she certainly is, this film humanizes her but still with great affection.

Yeah, I mean, she's always introduced as the “icon” Gloria Steinem, but I would say that an icon is a dead thing — it's like a dead sculpture, and there's nothing more alive, more vital, more activated, than Gloria Steinem. Her humor and her generosity are humongous parts of her character.

And the thing that I think makes her outstanding and different from so many people, especially people in powerful positions, is her ability to listen. And that is the opposite of the kind of masculine patriarchal leader who has to be dominant and dominating. Gloria does it without dominating, and you could say that’s classic female, but it's really classic Gloria.

When she’s in talking circles, she's there to listen. Gloria would say, “Tell me more, tell me what it is. And let me see if I can help.” It’s just extraordinary to me.

Aside from being biographical about Gloria’s life, I’d also say, if anything, it’s more of a film about female friendships.

Absolutely, that’s what it is! It’s the love affairs between the women. The real relationships in the movie are the relationships she had with Wilma Mankiller, Dorothy Pitman Hughes, Flo Kennedy, Dolores Huerta — all the women in her life that she really worked closely with, these friendships were her love affairs that lasted her lifetime. You'll see that profoundly between her and Wilma Mankiller. So, yeah, I think I want to say a lot about women's friendships.

The Glorias will be on digital and streaming exclusively on Prime Video starting on September 30.